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 DSB Tier List

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Mincereth
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PostSubject: DSB Tier List   Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:39 pm

I know there are "official" tier lists that are made by the opinions of the pros. But what about us more casual players? Do we feel that Honda is top while Makoto is bottom? Do some matchups feel different then what they say? We should come up with our own listing. We should each come up with our own tier list, compare, then agree on a finalized version. But we have to have just reasons for the character's placements, not just cause we like them or not. What do you guys think?

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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:08 pm

Sounds good to me. I'll begin mulling my decisions over.
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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:45 am

I concur

Quick not much thought incomplete analysis:

*Will edit as we continue this debate*

---------
S - Ryu
---------

Casualy, I feel Ryu is incredibly strong, he has tools for almost every situation, he's strong, easy enough to use, and his U1 setup is one of the easiest in the game.

---------------------------------------------
A - Sagat, Akuma, Bison, Rog, an Buki
---------------------------------------------

I place Sagat and Akuma so high, largely because of their ability to "zone", and they both have fairly good normals. Akuma is really limbo A-B to me, he has low health, but with only a little cunning, he can turn a knockdown into a nightmare.

Bison and Rog I put high, mainly for their ease of use, good normals, and easy combos.

Buki, is a pain to fight if your opponent put a little time into learning when to use what, and her kunai games.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
B - Chun, Abel, Blanka, Ken, Guile, Honda, DJ, Viper, and Rose
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chun is fairly easy to use, and has good normals, but alot of her specials are lack-luster.

Abel gets in B because he has good combos and specials, and some decent mix-ups. I would put him in my A-Rank, but he is a little harder to use that them, and people have a tendency to run away from him, so he hasta do work.

Blanka and Honda have easily spammable moves. Blanka also has fireball avoidance on his side, while Honda packs a powerful punch.

I place Ken here only because of his similarities to Ryu/Akuma, but much weaker.

Guile and DJ are both often used the same at a casual level, keeping your opponent away, and AAing whenever possible.

Viper is B for pretty much the same reasons Buki is A, cept she's harder to use.

Rose, well, close S.Mk, and U2, lol

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C - Rufus, Dudley, Seth, Sakura, Cammy, Cody, Fuerte, Vega, Adon, Guy, Dhalsim, Fei, and Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To many people to go into specifics.

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D - Gief, Hawk, Juri, Gouken, and Gen
--------------------------------------------

I place Gief low, if only because if you gain a life lead, he pretty much HAS to do reckless and stupid things.

Hawk is the same as Gief, but with the added bonus of a quick full screen air move.

Juri and Gouken are lacking alot of things to make them useful.

Gen, poor Gen, I hate to put him here, but he's just not as good as he was in Nilla.

-------------------------
F - Makoto and Hakan
-------------------------

Should be obvious enough.
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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:21 am

S - Bison, Ryu.

Bison. Awesome normals, very safe blockstrings which can pressure opponents into the corner. Heavy damage on ultras / super.

Ryu. Kinda like DG said... except I'd take it further and say he's potent on any level of play. Easily executable combos and setups that reap big rewards... and the ability to sneeze into an ultra is awesome for Ryu players as well.

(scenario) Ryu Player: ACHOO!
Ryu Player's friend who s standing close by: Bless yo- OH FUCK!!
Ryu Player: HADOOOOKEN!!!1!
Announcer: I've never seen anything like this!
___________________________________________________________________________
A - Abel, Balrog, Ibuki, Akuma, Chun, Rose, Seth, Rufus

Abel. Covers distance well, and isn't as easily zoned as most grapplers / close range fighters. Fairly easy setups into U1 and Super. Tornado throw is amazingly effective even if you're know its coming. U2... well... if you react wrong to its activation say goodbye to half of your life. He answers most situations well, either with a good combo or a grounding for wake up games.

Balrog. Can generally set the pace of the match. If Rog wants to be aggressive he can be. If he wants you to come to him and stomp your face when you slip up, he can. Good normals, cr. lp is a beast compared to other characters' and if you mess up your blockstring or a one frame link he can mash it in and start some whoopin of his own. Don't get me started on AA(headbutt) to ultra / super.

Ibuki. Kunai I traps from a skilled Ibuki can get pretty crazy, considering they can be used as cross ups, ambiguous cross ups, starting a combo from a low attack when they're blocked hi, eating her overhead when blocked low. She has high level execution requirement which bars her from S tier, and she's not very graceful at soaking up damage. Both of her Ultras do nice damage, and any character with an air throw has good options when they or the opponent is jumping.

Akuma. Similar reasons for Ibuki. Good ones will mindfuck you into the ground and combo you forever.

Chun. Amazing normals. Even a safe looking jump in gets stuffed by st hp. Her newfound ability to combo into an ultra consistently made her already strong design better. High damaging combos ranging from easy execution to hard execution. Not S because Hazanshu is focus bait and as far as I've seen she doesn't have any complex mindgames and takes a fair amount of thought to make her truly effective.

Rose. OMG her backdash... Super period of invulnerability at times makes what seems like a sure fire punish turn into you getting punished yourself. U2 adds a threat to attacking her once its been activated. Her combos are straight forward and reasonably damaging. Decent with zoning, and can negate zoning fireball somewhat with her reflect.

Seth. Sure he's a glass cannon... but with proper set up and and reads he will dominate with combos that go for so long you might as well go pour yourself a drink, down it, and pour another and return to the game.

Rufus. Powerful. Great cross up game with divekick BS. heavy damage output, ability to take a beating. Disgusting wobble factor which hypnotically throws even the most concentrated street fighters off their game.

__________________________________________________________________________
B - Sagat. Guile. Blanka. E Honda. Fei Long. Dhalsim. Cody. Ken. El Fuerte. Dudley. Viper. Sakura. DeeJay. Vega. Cammy

Sagat. Shadow of his former broken glory. All he really has now is the excellent ability to keep you out, and with good reaction damage you and g back to keeping you out.

Guile. Sonic boom all day. Flash kick when you're in range. Or he can get aggressive and totally surprise you. Always has the option of reverting back to the game of Street Hider.

Blanka. Stupid hitbox. Decent shenanigans. Good mix up on unsuspecting players. Ultra and Super that block differently than pretty much the whole cast.

E Honda. Excellent damage. Staying in can be hard against good zoners, and high damage combos take a bit of great execution.

Fei Long. Decent damage on punishes. Can bridge the gap of zoning with well timed rekkakyaku, which on hit can lead into nice combos. Would be higher if U2 wasn't garbage.

Dhalsim. A zoning beast that is quickly shut down the minute the zoning fails unless a brilliant escape attempt is made.

Cody. Dial a combos good for those lacking 1 frame link execution. Good damage output from simple combos.

Ken. A less useful Ryu. When SRK is not the key to victory, Ken players cry and listen to My Chemical Romance albums... I think.

El Fuerte. Strong mix up game. Incredibly frustrating to think you should block high to get thrown. Or block low and get splatted. Or block high next time and get slide kicked.

Dudley. Combo King. Can get pretty heavy on execution and links. Classy setup for U2

Viper... Insane ways to set up high damage combos... Insanely difficult to execute said combos. Nice Boobs = B tier

Sakura. Amazing resets. When you get on a roll and keep faking the opponent out is where she really shines. When you are not doing that you are most likely dying.

DeeJay. Same shit as Guile really. Weaker fireball game.

Vega. Good mind game character. Ability to negate (even chip) damage on projectiles. Great normals and two types of air throws.

Cammy. Good damage. Combos require good execution and the right setup. Whiffing CS leads to eating damage. Scary when she gets on a roll.

__________________________________________________
C- Gouken. Guy. Gen. Juri. Zangief. Tickle Hawk. Adon. Dan.

Gouken. Outside of tricky zoning he doesn't have much except cool looking combos that don't do damage. Backthrow to Ultra is amazing for damage... but its not reliable as the throw can be teched in most instances.

Guy. You have to be a mind gaming 'M'n'Fer' to use this guy efficiently. Damage is good once the mix ups and bunshin chains get going, but his run command seems weird and kind of telegraphs his intentions. His jumping elbow drop is perfect to use when you wanna get punished.

Gen. You have to be a mind gaming 'M'n'Fer' and have great combo execution to utilize Gen effectively. He's got versatile and damaging combos, and weird hit boxes on cross ups.

Juri. *shrugs* Normals kind of suck. AA is good. I don't know anything about U1, but against a jumpy opponent U2 can easily be combo'd into. Her fireballs can be tricky.

Zangief. Keep him out. You win. Let him in and let him stay in, you lose.

Tickle Hawk. Read Gief, except he's a tad more mobile.

Adon. Great against people who love to abuse focus attack. Can get around zoners. But on block most of his specials hare easily punished. Tooth blocked or whiffed is super punishing.

Dan. Decent normals. Lack of any real zoning hurts. Dankukyaku is super badass and does a good deal of damage. FADC into ultra moved him up a bit from the last game.

___________________________________________________________________________
D- Makoto, Hakan

Makoto. Struggles against zoners, close rangers... hrmmm inbetweeners, grapplers... and everybody. Karakusa range is laughable considering the animation. No really good AA, and most of her pokes are garbage.

Hakan. Oil up. Eat a fireball or a combo. Get oil slide blocked. Eat a combo. Whiff a grab. Eat a combo. Taunt... (Like a boss)
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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:11 am

This is all before the AE comes out...

S - Ryu

Ryu: He has all the answers. His normals are superb, his ultra is easy to combo into, his game is just spot on.

A - Akuma, Balrog, Chun-Li, E. Honda, Guile, M. Bison, Rose, Sagat, Seth, Zangief

Akuma: Just slightly less than Ryu if only b/c he can't combo into ultra and he has less health/stun.

Balrog: Awesome normals, fast jab will knock out characters of most of their moves. His rush game can break most people down.

Chun-Li Also fast normals (her pokes are one of the best), fast walk speed, amazing back dash to get out of trouble, easy to combo into her ultra 2

E. Honda High health and huge damage, his moves are easily spammable and hard to counter, an easily abuseable character

Guile His zoning game is the best, most people don't know how to deal with it since he recovers almost instantly from throwing out the sonic boom, his normals are great and his pressure when up close is tough to deal with

Rose Her game relies on her mixups between her normals and her throws and with awesome normals that lead to great tick throws, it's tough to counter (and her ultra 2 is tough to get around)

Sagat Still imposing, dealing great damage and has a strong fireball game, he can be terrifying to fight (especially if the player knows how to kara his special moves)

Seth He has all the tools of all the best characters, his only downside is his weak health/stun

Zangief He has so much health that he can walk into anything to reach his opponent. When he finally gets in range, he deals massive damage and upon knockdown, his wake up game is stupendous
___________________________________________________________________________

B - Abel, Blanka, Cammy, Cody, Dhalsim, Fei Long, Ibuki, Ken, Rufus, Sakura

Abel - He can dash cancel after a normal which makes his inclose game deadly, his tornado throw is hard to beat, keeping him out of reach is tough

Blanka - His shenanigans is annoying and his electricity is spammable (goodluck jumping in on him)

Cammy - Her pressure game is awesome cause of her cannon strike, she has fast walk speed and she does good damage quickly. She has a lot of short comings though since she has low health/stun, her moves are unsafe, and she can only do damage from close range

Cody Excellent normals and frame traps, awesome AA capabilities, he's definitely high B tier since he has an answer for everything

Dhalsim Very frustrating to deal with, his limbs and his AA can keep anyone out, though once Dhalsim is cornered he's in big trouble cause he has no in close abilities

Fei Long Extremely fast, his pokes are pretty good and Rekkas are an amazing tool to keep pressure as well as chip the opponent to death

Ibuki Can deal high damage very fast, her Vortex is what keeps her up since a lot of people don't know how to deal with it, she can SJC combo into ultra, her low health/stamina and slow normals keep her down

Ken The weaker of the shotos I feel but don't count him out, he deals stun quickly and his kara throw is dangerous

Rufus A lot of people have trouble with his dive kick pressure and he has many ways to combo into ultra. Many of his moves are safe on block and his jesus kick is superb

Sakura She is a bit of a surprise to have in B tier but I feel she does well. She has a strong poking game, she does massive damage quickly, many ways to combo into ultra, she's a well rounded character
________________________________________________________________________________________________

C - Adon, C. Viper, Dee Jay, Dudley, El Fuerte, Gen, Gouken, Guy, Juri, T. Hawk, Vega

Adon Even though a lot of his moves are armor breaking and are safe on block, it's very difficult to play him since he doesn't have the same tools as everyone else and his combos are strict

C. Viper Though she has great mixups and her feints can trick a lot of people, she takes well execution and if the player doesn't have that, then they are done. She also has slow normals and her FA is the worst in the game

Dee Jay He has ok normals but an amazing AA game, his only lack in this game is really how to get in with the opponent

Dudley He has insane combos that deal a lot of damage but his moves are easy to read which kills his game

El Fuerte His normals are the worst in the game which kill him, his main attacks are a guessing game for even him so he's always in danger, though a strong wake up game, that's all he has going for him

Gen Due to his mk>hands getting nerfed from vanilla, as well as nearly everything else that he had going for him, he was brought down hard

Guy He has a hard time approaching a lot of characters. Once he gets a knockdown, his momentum builds and he's hard to get away from (and if he has you in the corner, you are in trouble)

Juri She zones well with her fireballs (and they recover fast enough), her main troubles are that most of her moves are unsafe on block

T. Hawk Though a faster moving Zangief, he doesn't have the combos like Zangief which hurt him, his command grabs are the strongest and have the most range in the game, his wake up game also isn't as strong as Zangiefs

Vega Great poking game, has weak AA game, his combos are all links, and his back flip escape is readable and punishable if you are fast enough
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

D - Dan, Hakan, Makoto

Dan He has no links into specials, his fireball game is terrible, his only good move is really the knee of justice but even that is a guessing game on block for both players

Hakan Unless he is oiled up, he has no range on his command grabs, a few of his specials are unsafe, and when he does oil up, he is vulnerable for a moment

Makoto Though she has a fast dash, her walking speed is atrocious, her pressure is in her f. mp, mp and axe kick but that's really all she has, and her command grab is slow/no range

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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:47 pm

No S tier in my list! Laughing

___________________________________________________________________________
A - Ryu, Chun, Guile, Bison, Bison, Akuma, Rose, Rufus, Honda, Cammy

Ryu - VERY VERY strong character. He's almost perfect in every sense. Good normals, combos, great Ultra set ups. He's the main character for a reason lol.

Chun - Love me some Legs Razz High damage from links and leg combos. Great poking character as for normals have great reach and great priority. Great setups for her U2 and good chip from it as well. U1 is great for fb characters if you can punish effectively. Slightly lacking in wakeup if she has no meter. Strongest woman in the world no doubt!

Guile - Guy's a brick wall. Crazy strong normals with a Fb so good you have to be psychic to punish. Very annoying to deal with if he baits jumping and does air throws. I call him Mini Gat

Bison - Awesome normals, St. Hk is great. Good pressure with lk scissors, good U2 for fbs and Psycho crusher is a good crossup move. But I think his wake up game is lacking slightly.

Balrog - Very annoying character with his jabs and headbutts. Can easily combo into his U1 and can really mess with you if you not careful. Dash punches can come quick and painful. And he can easily turtle you out.

Akuma - Vortex is REALLY tricky. Air fbs and can mixup very well with his demon flip. Strong character but is very weak in HP/Stun.

Rose - My beautiful Rose Razz Good normals and nice fb game mixup. Good AA with cr. HP and can slide under some fbs with D+Fwd mk or just simply reflect/eat fbs with her scarf. U2 can really turn the tide in your favor when active. Her combos are strong and can be good to pressure with.

Rufus - Great pressure character, can really put the hurt on with mixups with his dive kick. Many ways to combo into his Ultras and his U2 is great for punishing ppl who do reckless stuff.

E Honda - The OP man. Stop sign hurts and all his combos kill. Nice AA with LP Headbutt but can't deal with zone type characters well.

Cammy - Good damage. Combos require execution and can be slightly difficult to work your way in. Scary when gets momentum.
__________________________________________________________________________
B - Sagat, Seth, Ibuki, Blanka, Abel, Sim, Ken, Fei-Long, Dee Jay, Gief, Dudley, Viper, Sakura, Vega

Sagat - Not as strong and Vanilla but still close to the top. FB game is probably one of the best if not the best. Strong Normals to keep ppl away and do dmg. He's one of the best zoners in the game next to Sim.

Seth - Paper boy but with proper set up, he can do serious dmg off mixups. Good zoning and strong up close. Corner game can be a headache for some ppl.

Ibuki - Kunai vortex can very tricky to block and very annoying. But if you figure that she has to really work hard for dmg which is kinda low. Normals are decent and have good priority. Great reset game as well.

Blanka - Screwy shenanigans. Good mix up game to keep you guessing. Electricity is a great AA and very easy to spam. Ultras do monstrous damage and chip. Tricky to block too.

Abel - Covers distance well with dash and roll. Tornado throw is great and does awesome dmg. U2 is a real pain if you don't know how to deal with it. Good normals are well especially his Fwd MK>Dash.

Dhalsim- The normals on this guy are ridiculous. All do decent dmg and can be very annoying to deal with if you don't have a sure way of getting in. If you can get in he's done for tho. He is the zone master.


Ken - The Kara master. Has great range on his kara throw. Good pokes but crappy fb. Has to work a bit harder than Ryu and doesn't have a good way of using his Ultras.

Fei Long- Decent damage on punishes. Great pokes especially his Cr. mp and mk. Rekkas are a good pressure tool and can be hard to punish if spaced right.

DeeJay - Lacks in a decent AA and pressure game. Has to rely on his vortex and awkard jump arc. His specials can be punished if timed right.

Zangief - A walking tank that can hurt you very easy. Decent AA with Lariat and has great links. Green hand/Lariat is good for FB characters and a nice way to build meter till you close in.

Dudley - Good pressure with tick throws and MGB. Nice U2 and can be easily combo'd into. Good corner pressure.

Viper - Very scary in the right hands. Has to rely on feints and burn kicks to mix up. Hard character to figure if you don't know what she's gonna do. Ground pound is a great way to chip ur opponent and keep them guessing when they're gonna get hit.

Sakura - Amazing resets. Good St. HK and nice setups to get Ultras off.

Vega - Good character with killer pokes and range. His flips can get him out of some crappy situations but can be punished easily.

__________________________________________________
C- El Fuerte, Gouken, Juri, Cody, Guy, T Hawk, Adon, Gen, Dan

El Fuerte - Has barely any links at all. Normals are very weak. Strong mix up game. Incredibly frustrating character to read. But if you can he's pretty much done. It's a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Gouken- Interesting FB game, with a dangerous mixup with the demon flips (not as strong as Akuma tho) Lacking links but makes up for it with damaging corner combos

Juri- My crazy little Juri Razz Walk speed hurts her badly and screws with her normals. Her normals are slightly underrated, they have good range and decent priority but you have to know when to use them and which. Her corner game is where she shines and with the FB store and release can be hard for ur opponent to get out of. U1 is good for turning the match in ur favor since he pulls ppl on the defensive. U2 is good for jumpers but not good for AA and the hitbox is crap. Lacks a good wakeup as well. A jack of all trades but weak in all. Sad

Cody- Good damage from his combos but lacks a wakeup game, AA and is a slow walker.

Guy- Lacking pokes but crazy in close. Bushin combos are great and has a interesting mixup game especially in the corner. If you master his run stop you could really screw with your opponent. His jumping elbow drop is
very useful in certain situations (use wisely) Although he has to force his way in which is bad.

T Hawk- Powerful pokes, but is lacking in the knockdown area. His jumping dive is good on closing the distance but can be punished. And has no way of building meter effectively. Very weak against Fb characters.

Adon. Great St. Hk for FA. Specials tend to leave him open for dmg. Wonky jump arc can really mess with you. He's missing something just not sure what.

Gen- The Grumpy old man Mad Can be a very annoying character with his different jump arcs. Has probably one of the hardest jumps arcs to read in the game. He is lacking in dmg, pressure and wakeup. Has to work overtime to get anything done. His pokes are ok but really lacks a good AA move. Hands do crap dmg and pushes him away from this opponent which is bad. His most dmging combos come from his super and Ultras which can be hard to set up on certain characters. Can be easily dominated and lacks a good wakeup since his only options are hands or Gekiro which leave him open. Vanilla Gen is better by far.

Dan. Decent normals. Lack of a good fb. Dankukyaku is decent and pretty good if you know how to setup properly. FADC into U2 helped him a lot.

___________________________________________________________________________
D- Hakan, Makoto

Hakan- Underrated but is lacking due to the fact that he needs oil to do real dmg. He has decent normals that can break FA tho.

Makoto- Her walk speed is horrendous but her dash makes up for it. Her normals aren't very good and her command grab is a complete joke.


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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:38 pm

It's great reading our different perspectives on the characters. Some of them we agree on and some we absolutely contradict to one another. I'm just waiting on a few more inputs then I'll be able to put together our DSB Tier list Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:05 pm

Yeah. It was pretty cool seeing how everyone views each character.
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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Mon May 30, 2011 1:03 pm

Wow, this kinda peeter'd out, lol

Perhaps we should finish this up before the release of AE? Cause it's right around the corner, lol
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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Mon May 30, 2011 2:25 pm

After playing the game more, my opinion has definitely changed about the list...want to try to put it all together?

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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Mon May 30, 2011 4:15 pm

could I give a list without necessarily discussing every character. My reason being that most of what I would say seems like it would be similar to what has already been said.
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PostSubject: Re: DSB Tier List   Mon May 30, 2011 6:41 pm

yeah sure of course

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